Questions & Answers

Welcome to the History of Ireland. Happy New Year everyone. Hope you’ve been having a good 2020 so far. Before we get stuck into 1920 though, I’m going to answer a few listener questions. As always, I’m blown away by the amount of people tuning in and enjoying the show, and it’s pretty bloody cool to hear from the lot of you. So let’s get cracking.

First off, William asks, What sources are you using, and which ones are accessible online, or which are from books I can get in the library? Now, that’s a really good question. Depending on the episode, I have various different sources I use. I work a lot from Charles Tanzen’s The Republic, the fight for Irish independence. It can sometimes jump all over the place, and some people say it’s a little pro-British, but it’s a pretty solid base to go from. If you can find it in the library, give it a read. There’s also the Atlas of the Irish Revolution, which is amazing. It’s huge, but a solid reference book that is a hell of a lot of fun to jump in and out of.

I also work a lot from academic articles. There’s just so much writing out there about the war of independence, and they’re great for really specific topics. The Limerick Soviet is a good example of where some solid articles allow me to dig really deep into the whole thing. I use JSTOR to access them. It’s a site online that hosts millions and millions and millions of articles. Luckily, I still have access through my old university, and if you’re in college, you probably have access to it, or if you were in college, you might also still have access. So, have fun searching through that.

There are also a bunch of great websites I use as well. Things like RTE’s Century Ireland, HistoryIreland.com, or TheIrishStory.com. They’re great for some initial reading to get yourself acquainted with the topic. And then finally, there’s Tim Pat Guggen, who, as we’ve said, is a great storyteller, though not necessarily a historian. His books are a good way to get engrossed in the stories of the time and get a shape of things. But I’d be slow to treat him as a proper historical text. He’s just kind of too biased for that. So go in with that mind and enjoy.

So that’s just a snippet of the references I use. You can check out more of them on the website, thehistoryofireland.com. I try and keep it updated as I go. Now, I know someone is probably going to have an issue with one or more of my references. But I’ve found the most important thing is to get multiple sources on any given topic. So that’s what I do. The history is still so fresh and so often disputed. It’s important to get different takes on it and create as educated a picture of the scenario as you can. There’s no one perfect source, and everyone has a little bit of bias. But the more you can get, the better you can throw them all together and create nice little 15 minute episodes for you guys. So that’s the references. Hope that helps.

Next, Daniel from Bulgaria, how cool is that, asked about the song Come Out You Black and Tans. Now, Daniel is technically sneaking ahead because we haven’t looked at the Black and Tans at all yet. But don’t worry, we will get to them soon. And his question drove me down a little bit of a rabbit hole, so I thought I’d include it.

First of all, he asked about the chorus, which goes like this. I’m not going to sing it, I’m just going to read it. Come out you black and tans, come out and fight me like a man. Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders. Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away from the green and lovely lanes of Kilshandra. Daniel had this to say. The chorus mentions some events that supposedly happened in Kilshandra. I tried looking that up but found nothing. There sure is a village called Kilshandra, but nothing important ever happened there. Is the author just using a place that rhymes with Flanders? Please advise.

Well Daniel, let’s investigate. First off, a little bit about the history of the song. It was written by Dominic Behan, a poet, playwright and songwriter who was kind of overshadowed by his more famous brother, Brendan Behan. Dominic wrote a bunch of songs that have settled in the collective consciousness, things like The L Triangle and The Patriot Game. But interestingly, sometimes Comanche Black and Tans is credited to Dominic and Brendan’s father, Stephen Behan, who was a member of Collins’ squad. Now I love the idea that the song was written during the war, but it’s kind of impossible to prove and it’s more likely that Dominic wrote it years later but credited his father for dramatic effect.

But anyway, down to the question. Daniel is right. Kilshandra is a town and cabin, and this area was one of the most quiet spots in the whole of the War of Independence. Nothing important really did happen there, not in terms of the War of Independence anyway, I’m sure something interesting has happened there. So how did it find itself in a song then? Well it’s very very hard to find any concrete information, and I haven’t been able to uncover much from Dominic himself. But there are two theories.

The first is that the song originally featured Kilmichael, a spot that saw quite a lot of action during the war. Most famously the Kilmichael ambush in November 1920, which we’ll cover in detail further down the line. But Kilmichael proved difficult to rhyme with, and so Dominic went with Kilshandra. The second theory, and my personal favourite, is that Dominic Behan specifically chose Kilshandra as a joke, because it was one of the most quiet towns in the country and nothing interesting happened there. Kind of puts a whole new spin on the song though, right?

So sorry, I couldn’t find much more information than you. But as I said, you pulled me down an interesting little rabbit hole, so I thought I’d include. In fact, I’m thinking an episode about Irish songs from the era could be a lot of fun, so stay tuned for that sometime in the future. And you can all thank Daniel when I get to it.

Another question I’ve gotten is, what do I use to host the podcast? Well, that’d be through Pinecast. If you’re looking to start your own, I highly recommend it. It’s a really nice site and it’s easy to use, it hosts everything and has great customer support.

Finally, a question I’ve gotten from a bunch of you guys is actually about the very last line of the sign-off. If you’ve listened right to the end, you’ll have heard it. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. Sovereignty was never ceded. This is an acknowledgement of country. Now, I’m no expert in Aboriginal history, not by a long shot, and the whole thing deserves a podcast in its own right. But I’ll give you a quick rundown and some further reading.

I’m living in Melbourne and this is where I record the podcast. The Wurundjeri people are the indigenous language group who inhabited the area around Melbourne for thousands of years. They’re one of hundreds of tribes slash language groups around Australia who are generally referred to under the catch-all term Aboriginals or First Australians. One awesome listener recently pointed out I was slightly mispronouncing Wurundjeri, so I’ve just updated the end section. But I’m probably still making hames of it. It’s a very cool but tricky language. Wa-run-jer-ee. Wurundjeri. I think that’s right.

Anyway, basically, when European settlers arrived in Australia, they pretty much stole the land from the Aboriginals, similar to what happened to the Native Americans. The Aboriginals never gave up control of the land though and have been treated horribly throughout the history of modern Australia, right up until today. If you want some grim reading, investigate The Stolen Generation on the Tasmanian Genocide. As one source puts it, Aboriginal Australians quote, had experienced significant exclusion from Australian society for many years. Which is honestly putting it pretty mildly. And unlike in New Zealand, Canada and the United States, Australia has no treaty with its Aboriginal people. So an acknowledgement of country obviously doesn’t make up for this. But it’s a small gesture of recognition of the association with the land and place of the first Australians and their history.

It’s something that’s now carried out at gigs, festivals, talks and even on websites. I think it’s important to include because it sparks this very conversation and helps people learn about Wurundjeri history and culture as well as acknowledging the amazing people who are keeping this culture alive. I also figured that considering the podcast is at its heart focused on the impact of colonialism, it was important to include. The Irish had it bad, but not nearly as bad as the Aboriginals. As I say, I’m obviously no expert on the topic at all but it is one that’s important to learn about I reckon. So yeah, that’s the acknowledgement of country and why I do it.

And okay, I think that’s all the questions. But don’t worry, if you’ve got any more, send them on and if I get enough, I’ll do this again sometime soon. It’s been great hearing from you guys. The support means so much. As well as questions, a bunch of listeners have been supporting the show financially and it’s amazing, it really helps. If you’ve enjoyed the episode so far and are looking forward to diving into 1920 as much as I am please consider throwing us a few bob. It helps keep the show going and if everyone who listened gave 5 bucks, well feck. I could turn this hobby into a real job and make longer, even better, more frequent episodes. If you’re keen, go to thehistoryofireland.com and click help pay for hosting. Thanks. See you in two weeks for a return to our regular scheduled programming.

Thanks for listening. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and if you’re enjoying it, tell your friends. It’ll really help. You can also get in touch with us through thehistoryofireland.com or follow us on Facebook. If I made a mistake, let me know. The History of Ireland was written and produced by me, Kevin Dolan. Additional research and fact-checking by Robert Babington, music by Liam Doyle and production help from Aoife Murphy. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. Sovereignty was never ceded.